Subject: XCOM XB compiler

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:31:43 -0500

Found a PDF manual on whtech this morning for XCOM compiler v1.1.  It  
seems to be a complete compiler for BASIC and XB.... In the  
introduction it lays out how it converts the XB code into machine code  
and saves it to MERGE format.... It says that it makes your program  
run 10-15 times faster than standard XB code.  It also says that with  
"the new version," the output machine code can be used with the Editor  
Assembler or MiniMem.  This looks promising.... Anyone know of this  
software?  Anyone have a copy they could share?  :)

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:37:46 -0700

Owen,

Ben Yates can tell you all about the XCOM compiler.  He'll pop in on 
this some time or another.

Bill S

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:41:28 -0500

I look forward to hearing all about it... Would LOVE to learn what I  
can about it.  :)

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:37 AM, fdos <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

---

From: Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:50:20 -0800

I've messed with some of the compilers Owen, They are very interesting.. But
sometimes its difficult to get things to work correctly in them.  I compiled
Camelot for instance, in my video on ustream you can see it run and how much
zippier it is compared to the TIbasic ver..

G

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Owen Brand <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:37 AM, fdos <[email-masked]<fdosbrs%40frontiernet.net>>
> wrote:
>
> > Owen,
> >

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:03:53 -0500

i am aware of a couple compilers that work brilliantly on BASIC... But  
XB seems to be problematic... Something about multiple statement  
lines, tokens, syntax.... All I know is I am curious... If I could  
learn to format an XB program WHILE writing it to work seamlessly in a  
compiler, I would certainly share the knowledge with everyone... For  
instance, if the compiler has any trouble handling, say, a line with  
more than 4 statements on it.... That would be noted and I would be  
able to move on and find other "buggy" elements, while always keeping  
in mind that 4 is the max # of statements per line the compiler can  
handle.... I know that is probably NOT one of the restrictions, but I  
am using it as an example.  If XB programming methods need to be  
altered for optimization with a compiler, that is fine.... Equate it  
to writing an assembly program while keeping in mind that it will be  
in multiple banks....

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>  
wrote:

> I've messed with some of the compilers Owen, They are very  
> interesting.. But sometimes its difficult to get things to work  
> correctly in them.  I compiled Camelot for instance, in my video on  
> ustream you can see it run and how much zippier it is compared to  
> the TIbasic ver..
>
> G
>
>

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:13:14 -0500

You know, I don't even need to compile an entire game--- if I could  
code some of the more memory-expensive subprograms into XB (3-4 lines)  
and compile those into hyper-fast AL routines and then CALL LOAD them,  
that would REALLY enhance what I'm doing.... That seems like it would  
be much more plausible.

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:14:05 -0700

Owen,

Here is a clue.  Most of these BASIC/XB compilers have been around for 
several decades now.  Do you hear anyone touting them to you for game 
development?  Have you found lots or a few of these compiled programs? 
We have some limited "C"/"c" compilers for our TI/Geneves and very good 
Fortran compilers for both, but how many compiled programs do you find? 
  I believe Clint Pulley's small c has the most.

Remember, I've been down this avenue too, so have many others.  A few 
have managed to do well with "C", in one form or another, but on the 
most part we either accept the speed and other limitations of XB and go 
on or we move to a speedier language of our own choice.  Most have gone 
to AL because Wycove Forth was expensive, and TI Forth was incomplete 
and buggy the way it was when TI put it into PD.  TI was reluctant to 
put it in PD because it was not finished or tested at the time, but 
Craig Miller convinced them to do it anyway.  The price for this was 
that TI Forth got a bad name very quickly, because programmers wanted 
instant solutions, and a buggy incomplete programming language didn't 
provide it.

Many of us wish it was otherwise, so that we could have done it our way 
in XB, but that's not been the case.  Even those who began to supplement 
XB with CALL LINK()s to AL routines eventually went all the way over to 
AL.  You'll understand why when you encounter the very slow XB object 
code loader.  Then you'll learn about ALLSAVE to remedy that, and the 
debug process for this technique will frustrate you, but if you can live 
with it....

These comments are only intended to save you some time.  I'm sure I've 
not been comprehensive or absolutely accurate in all cases (old gray 
matter you know), but I'm sure others here will expand and correct those 
short comings or simply have a different opinion.

Best wishes.

Bill S

Owen Brand wrote:
>  
> 
> You know, I don't even need to compile an entire game--- if I could code 
> some of the more memory-expensive subprograms into XB (3-4 lines) and 
> compile those into hyper-fast AL routines and then CALL LOAD them, that 
> would REALLY enhance what I'm doing.... That seems like it would be much 
> more plausible.
> 
> Owen Brand
> **Oprysoft**
> Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>
> 
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Gregory McGill <[email-masked] 
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
>>  
>>
>> ustream you can see it run and how much zippier it is compared to the 
>> TIbasic ver..
>>
>> G
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Owen Brand <[email-masked] 
>> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>
>>      
>>
>>     <http://Opry99er.com>Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>
>>
>>     On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:37 AM, fdos <[email-masked]
>>     <mailto:fdosbrs%40frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     > Owen,
>>     >
>>     >> <http://Opry99er.com>Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >
>>     >

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:47:10 -0500

Thanks Bill.  All I really need is something to take a one or two line  
XB sub and turn it into machine code for me.  I realize that compilers  
are inefficient for larger programs in XB--- having tried Wilhelm's  
compiler with very little success.  But.... What if it was a single  
line with 3 or 4 statements?  :)

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

On Jan 29, 2010, at 1:14 PM, fdos <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> code
>>> the

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:39:13 -0700

Owen,

Have you tried Barry Travers XXB?  It is a very comprehensive set of 
CALL LINK()s for XB.  In fact, Tony's XB 2.5 or 2.7 (depends on your 
floppy disk capacity) include it, and you do still have a GK, right?  It 
is also available for download from WHTECH separately, but I don't 
recall where specifically.  It might meet your needs well.  A lot of 
Barry's XXB AL routines are what I converted (with much assistance) for 
use in TI BASIC+, but I think the Sprite stuff was some what limited, so 
I got that stuff from Mark Wills' TGWTK (as modified for TI BASIC/EA by 
him).

You will always come up with new requirements for additional CALL 
LINK()s as your XB programing skills increase while XB remains static. 
Get use to it.

BASIC/XB compilers have their own user interface as they no longer 
interface to BASIC/XB interpreters, so the code produced by them will 
have to be interfaced back to the GPL interpreter in someway.  I know 
how to do it in Forth, but the compatibility of Forth and AL makes it 
very easy to do.  Good luck.

Bill S

Owen Brand wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 1:14 PM, fdos <[email-masked] 
>  >> Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>
>  >>
>  >> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Gregory McGill 
> <[email-masked] <mailto:arcadeshopper%40gmail.com>
>  >> <mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:arcadeshopper%40gmail.com>>> 
> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>
>  >>>
> <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com>
>  >>> <mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com>>> 
> wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>Opry99er.com 
> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>
>  >>>
> <mailto:fdosbrs%40frontiernet.net>
>  >>>>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>Opry99er.com 
> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:51:23 -0500

Bill--- as far as the GK goes, I am not currently in possession of  
one... However I CAN say that I did NOT sell it.  I thought about  
ebaying it, but thought better of it.  :) Some things should remain in  
our programming community and not go sit in a box under a bed waiting  
for the "market" to be right.

I have a TI floppy controller and a SSSD TI floppy drive--- but I also  
have 2 3.5 drives installed.

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:39 PM, fdos <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>>>>> introduction it lays out how it converts the XB code into  
>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>> code

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:09:18 -0700

Owen,

You don't have to have the GK for Barry's XXB, but once it's in your 
possession again then get Tony Knerr's XB 2.5 along with a GRAM7 EA and 
you'll have the near ultimate TI programming setup.  However, if you 
want to distribute your programs created in this environment limit 
yourself to TI XB and XXB only--don't use Tony's XB enhancements in the 
programs you create to distribute.  There are a lot of immediate mode 
commands that will be very useful during your programming sessions, however.

In the mean time download XXB, and see if these CALL LINK()s will be 
useful to your creative talents because you can distribute the XXB 
object code along with your programs.  Have fun.

Bill S

Owen Brand wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:39 PM, fdos <[email-masked] 
>  >>>> Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com> 
> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>>
>  >>>>
> <mailto:arcadeshopper%40gmail.com>
>  >>>> <mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:arcadeshopper%40gmail.com> 
> <mailto:arcadeshopper
>  >>>> %40gmail.com>>>
>  >> wrote:
>  >>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Owen Brand
>  >>>>> <[email-masked] <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com>
>  >>>>> <mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com> 
> <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com>>>
>  >> wrote:
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com> <http://Opry99er.com 
> <http://Opry99er.com>>>Opry99er.com
>  >> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com> <http://Opry99er.com 
> <http://Opry99er.com>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com> <http://Opry99er.com 
> <http://Opry99er.com>>>Opry99er.com
>  >> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com> <http://Opry99er.com 
> <http://Opry99er.com>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>

---

From: "Jacques Groslouis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:16:48 -0400

IIRC XXB is on the final disk issued by MICROpendium as part of their DOM 
disks. Should be on wht but I did not look.

Jacques

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:30:38 -0500

I'll DL that today.  I don't know that I will ever find another GK,  
but I am not sweating it.  One thing I've learned is that I prefer  
programming in an emulated setting most of the time, but I prefer  
playing and testing on the real hardware ALL the time.  If it can be  
emulated, that's what is moat important to me at the current time... I  
don't even have an AV cable for my TI right now--- gave mine away to  
my grandmother (of all people). She is lonely in her apartment so I  
went to her place and installed a console only setup with  
Blackjack&Poker, Touch Typing Tutor, TI Invaders, and Yahtzee.  She is  
saving up for a laptop, but until then, she has my AV cable... :) I  
can't even test on my real deal right now.. so I am wearing OUT my  
Classic99 software programming "Honeycomb Rapture."

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

On Jan 29, 2010, at 3:09 PM, fdos <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>>> most part we either accept the speed and other limitations of XB  
>>>>> and
>>>>> go
>>>>> Many of us wish it was otherwise, so that we could have done it  
>>>>> our
>>>>> way
>>>>> XB with CALL LINK()s to AL routines eventually went all the way  
>>>>> over
>>>>> to
>>>>> debug process for this technique will frustrate you, but if you  
>>>>> can
>>>>> live
>>>>> with it....
>>>>>
>>>>>> compile those into hyper-fast AL routines and then CALL LOAD  
>>>>>> them,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> would REALLY enhance what I'm doing.... That seems like it  
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> more plausible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owen Brand
>>>>>> **Oprysoft**
>>>>>>>>> run 10-15 times faster than standard XB code. It also says  
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> "the new version," the output machine code can be used with  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Editor

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:06:07 -0700

Yes, I use the MESS TI/Geneve emulators for all my software development 
as it best mimics my real TI (4A & 4P) and Geneve systems.  Definitely, 
saves wear and tear on my real hardware, as the assembly and compile 
processes really pound the disk drives (floppy or hard disk).

I'm trying to setup my CF7A+ system, which is connected to a 23" LCD 
flat panel, as is my Win98SE PC, for my grandkids so they can easily 
load their favorite games using a simple menu system.  Parsec really 
shows off well on this wide screen HDTV with lots of different types of 
inputs.  Fortunately, I don't have to give up access to the Win98SE PC 
and CF7A+ Sidecar very often or for long periods of time.  It always 
stays here after they leave! :-)

Bill S

Owen Brand wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 3:09 PM, fdos <[email-masked] 
> <http://Opry99er.com>>>>
>  >>>>>> <mailto:[email-masked] 
> <mailto:arcadeshopper%40gmail.com> <mailto:arcadeshopper
>  >>>>>> %40gmail.com>
>  >> <mailto:arcadeshopper
>  >>>>>> %40gmail.com>>>
>  >>>> wrote:
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> <mailto:[email-masked] 
> <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com> <mailto:owenbrand%40opry99er.com>
> <http://Opry99er.com>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>
>  >> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>>>Opry99er.com
> <http://Opry99er.com>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>
>  >> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com> 
> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>> <http://
>  >>>>>>>>> Opry99er.com
>  >> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>>>Opry99er.com
> <http://Opry99er.com>> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>
>  >> <http://Opry99er.com <http://Opry99er.com>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>

---

From: mark wills <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:55:46 -0800 (PST)

And seriously, get a copy of The Missing Link and check out the demo programs.

AMAZING stuff!

----- Original Message ----
> From: fdos <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Sent: Fri, 29 January, 2010 21:09:18
> > On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:39 PM, fdos 
> > > wrote:
> > 
> >  > Owen,
> >  >
> >  >> On Jan 29, 2010, at 1:14 PM, fdos 
> > 
> >  >> > wrote:
> >  >>
> >  >>> Owen,
> >  >>>
> >  >>>>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:37 AM, fdos 
> > 
> >  >> 
> >  >>>>> > wrote:
> >  >>>>>
> >  >>>>>> Owen,
> >  >>>>>>

---

From: mark wills <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:58:26 -0800 (PST)

<snip>gave mine away to 
my grandmother (of all people). She is lonely in her apartment so I 
went to her place and installed a console only setup with 
Blackjack&Poker, Touch Typing Tutor, TI Invaders, and Yahtzee</snip>

WHOA! LOL! You're on a MISSION man! I think owen is about to take over the computing world and restore the ousted TI to it's rightful throne!

Do by any chance live in a old volcano, own a white cat and have an unfortunate scar on your face!

M

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:01:49 -0500

LMFAO!!!!  Man--- how did you know.

Owen Brand
**Oprysoft**
Opry99er.com

On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:58 PM, mark wills <[email-masked]>  
wrote:

> WHOA! LOL! You're on a MISSION man! I think owen is about to take  
> over the computing world and restore the ousted TI to it's rightful  
> throne!
>