Subject: Re: [Geneve9640] AT2XT keyboard converter

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:40:50 -0500

I'm cross posting this to the TI Yahoo group as well as the Geneve group 
just in
case there are some Geneve users in the TI group and not in the Geneve 
group.
Sorry if some of you get duplicate messages.

I got the AT2XT keyboard converter today and it works great with the Geneve.
So anyone with a flakey keyboard on their Geneve can upgrade to a modern
keyboard and help keep their Geneve alive. For those not familiar with 
the device,
look at the link in my original message below. You can purchase a kit 
from one
of the members in The Vintage Computer Forum found in the wiki article.
It costs $13 including shipping and is very easy to assemble in about 10 
minutes.
This device is well worth the cost and I'm going to get another one for 
my other
Geneve.

The keypress combinations necessary for the Geneve work ok. Ctrl-shift-shift
works fine for rebooting and returning to the Geneve GPL menu when executing
GPL mode. Ctrl-alt-del works, but you have to hold down ctrl-alt and 
give del
a quick tap otherwise it repeats. Are there any other combinations I 
should try?
The keyboard leds function as expected,also.

All in all this is a great investment and I recommend the device to all 
Geneve users.
Should anyone want one and not have the skills to assemble it, I would 
be willing to
do so for you free of charge, just send me the kit and pay the shipping 
costs.

Tony

On 1/8/2011 7:21 PM, Tony Knerr wrote:
>
> http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/AT2XT_keyboard_converter
>
> Would this work with a Geneve? With XT keyboards in short supply,
> it might be a nice option. It looks easy enough to build if one has the
> ability to make a small pcb and program the chip involved.
>
> I know I'd buy one (or several) if it worked. Or even help build 'em.
>
> Tony
>
>

---

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:16:41 -0500

If anyone was considering purchasing one of these kits, hold off for now.
I've found and reported a bug in which the F5 key responds with the code 
for F7,
and F7 does not respond. My bug report has been acknowledged and hopefully
will be corrected. Those two keys are important for us, not as much so for
PC XT's.

I've also found that some keyboards work ok with the ctrl-shift-shift 
combination and
others do not. Fortunately that can be worked around in software for the 
Geneve
simply by coding a different key combination for that function. I've 
already tested
some other combinations that work with all the keyboards I've got.

I'll keep you posted.

Tony

---

From: "Tony Knerr" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:54:03 -0000

I just got my updated chip for the AT2XT keyboard converter today
and am pleased to report that everything works well when connected
to a Geneve. The F7 problem has been corrected and all keys respond as
they should. The device works equally well with the Rave99 keyboard 
adapter board. Regarding the Rave board, there is room on the board to
mount all the components necessary for the AT2XT keyboard converter, 
thus making the Rave keyboard adapter into an AT keyboard device 
instead of an XT keyboard device. In case anyone forgot what this is, 
look here:

and you can see the discussion as to the development of the project 
here:

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?15907-AT-to-XT-Keyboard-Converter

There are still a number of kits available per the info on the 
Vintage Computer Forum if anyone is interested. On the subject of
upgrading Rave99 cards, is anyone here interested in that?
Perhaps we could obtain some of the blank PICs and program them 
for interested TI'ers. Does anyone have a PIC programmer that can
program the PIC12F629 chip, and would you be willing to program
a bunch of them for us?

Tony

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:29:37 -0800 (PST)

I hate to flaunt my ignorance again but I figured you guys could use a laugh.  Ia an AT keyboard the same or equivalent to a PS/2 keyboard ?

--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Tony Knerr <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Subject: [TI994A] Re: [Geneve9640] AT2XT keyboard converter
To: [email-masked]
Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 5:54 PM

  

look here:

here:

a bunch of them for us?

Tony

---

From: mark wills <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:31:36 +0000 (GMT)

Tony

Where can I buy one? I couldn't see a link to purchase one, though I saw it was 
$10

Mark

________________________________
From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Fri, 25 February, 2011 23:54:03
Subject: [TI994A] Re: [Geneve9640] AT2XT keyboard converter

Tony

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

---

From: "Tursi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:00:19 -0800

>I hate to flaunt my ignorance again but I figured you guys could use a 
>laugh.  Ia an AT keyboard the same or equivalent to a PS/2 >keyboard ?

They use essentially the same protocol - the AT is the larger 5-pin DIN 
connector while the PS/2 is the smaller connector. Although AT is largely 
obsolete today adapters are easy to come by (and both work on my TI PS/2 
adapter ;) )

---

From: "Tony Knerr" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:02:42 -0000

Yup.

--- In [email-masked], Marc Hull <marc.hull@...> wrote:
>
> I hate to flaunt my ignorance again but I figured you guys could use a laugh.Â  Ia an AT keyboard the same or equivalent to a PS/2 keyboard ?
>

---

From: Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:02:45 -0800

AT and PS2 are connectors, not protocols, the protocol is the same. The
adaptor converts AT keyboards to work with XT which IS a protocol change.

Greg

---

From: "Tursi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:52:58 -0800

AT and PS/2 are often considered only connectors, but the PS/2 keyboards are 
documented to support additional features and codesets not available when AT 
was developed. My statement used the word "essentially" which was supposed 
to indicate that they are pretty much the same while encompassing minor 
variations like this, and I didn't say anything about the XT converter (in 
fact, neither did the OP). So I won't talk further about it. The short 
version is the XT->AT adapter should work with most, if not all PS/2 
keyboards.

Now, then, XT, AT, and PS/2 keyboards are all named for the machine that IBM 
introduced them with, and were not formally named that way. Rather the names 
grew out of convention. PS/2 is /compatible/ with AT, both forwards and 
backwards, but extends the protocol. From 
http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2keyboard/ (as good a reference as 
any):

"The PS/2 keyboard was originally an extension of the AT device.  It 
supported a few additional host-to-keyboard commands and featured a smaller 
connector.  These were the only differences between the two devices."

It further notes:

"Today, "AT keyboard" and "PS/2 keyboard" refers only to their connector 
size.  Which settings/commands any given keyboard does or does not support 
is anyone's guess.  For example, the keyboard I'm using right now has a 
PS/2-style connector but only fully supports seven commands, partially 
supports two, and merely "acknowledges" the rest.  In contrast, my "Test" 
keyboard has an AT-style connector but supports every feature/command of the 
original PS/2 device (plus a few extra.)"

That said, Greg, I would stand by my use of the word "essentially", though I 
really don't understand why it's a point of contention worth posting a 
correction for. The protocols as released differed slightly, even if that 
difference has been lost through multiple implementations. If AT was 
keyboard protocol 2.0, then PS/2 was 2.1 - just a minor update.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gregory McGill
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:02 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Re: [Geneve9640] AT2XT keyboard converter

Greg

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Tursi 
<href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]>

---

From: Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:58:44 -0800

So you agree the keyboard protocol is the same, the ps/2 keyboards
might have additional functions and features but they talk the same
basic protocol to the keyboard controller.  Either will work in the AT
keyboard interface.

Greg

---

From: "Tursi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:19:20 -0800

Fine, you're right, I'm wrong, sorry for trespassing. I'll never use a 
modifier again.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gregory McGill
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:58 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Re: [Geneve9640] AT2XT keyboard converter

Greg

Yahoo! Groups Links

---

From: Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:00:30 -0800

We're both right     :D
Greg

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Tursi <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > documented to support additional features and codesets not available when
>
> > AT
> > That said, Greg, I would stand by my use of the word "essentially",
> though
> > I

---

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:32:07 -0500

Using the parts and schematic from the AT2XT keyboard converter project,
I've successfully converted a Rave99 keyboard card from an XT to an AT 
interface.
It took about 2 hours to complete the conversion just winging it from 
the schematic.
I've included front and back photos attached to this email, sorry that I 
couldn't get
them any clearer.

On the front photo of the board, you can see the area in the lower left 
of the board
where the additional parts are mounted and the wires running across the 
board
to where they needed to be tied in to the keyboard connector. If you compare
the photo to the one here:
http://www.mainbyte.com/ti99/hardware/rave/keyboard.html
, you can see the empty mounting space on the board that I used.

On the rear photo of the board, you will see on the left side where 2 
traces had to
be cut and the wires coming through a hole in the board so they could be 
tied to
the appropriate traces. The newly soldered areas in the lower right 
corner are
where the new parts have been mounted.

Just another TI kinda' fun Saturday afternoon. :)

Tony