Subject: Commodore 1084S monitor issue

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 12:44:11 -0700

While I was out searching for a PC serial null modem cable yesterday I 
came across a 110-120 to 220-240 60 Hz step up transformer.  I pulled 
the Commodore 1084S monitor that I used in Poland (1996-1997) out of the 
garage.  As I need both analog RGB and composite capability I first took 
it to my living room where I have a TI setup for my grand-kids to use.

I set up the monitor switches for CVBS operation, connected the 
transformer power to an outlet, removed the TI AV connections from the 
big flat screen HDTV and connected them to the moniter and turned on the 
power.  The video is clear and sharp, but it's monochrome only--no 
color.  I'm guessing this is a 50/60 Hz issue, so I'm hesitant to 
continue by installing it my geek room to check out the analog RGB 
function with the 4P system, as it is very difficult to connect up all 
the cables to the two TI systems (4A & 4P) due to being back to back 
with the Geneve system.  I only have 9 days now in which I can return 
the transformer for complete refund.

Is there any hope of getting composite color and full analog RGB 
operation with this monitor?

Bill S

---

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:22:07 -0500

Bill,

I have the exact same behavior with one of my Magnavox 8CM monitors,
which are the same as the Commodore monitors. Composite input only
shows up as black and white, but RGB works just fine. So I would suggest
trying it before "digging in" to it.

Tony

On 1/6/2011 2:44 PM, fdos wrote:
> _

---

From: "Tursi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 12:28:13 -0800

If that is a PAL monitor, then NTSC composite video will only ever show up 
as black and white. PAL and NTSC use different methods for encoding the 
color (but similar methods for encoding the brightness, this is why you get 
a picture at all).

RGB, as noted, will show up in color regardless. :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: fdos
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:44 AM
To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked]
Subject: [TI994A] Commodore 1084S monitor issue

Bill S

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:41:48 -0700

Thanks Tony, that's helpful.  Probably better to live with the black & 
white composite as long as the RGB is colorful and crisp while I try to 
fix one of the other US version Commodore 1084 monitors.

Bill S

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:47:08 -0700

I suppose it must be a PAL version as I purchased it used in Poland.  I 
only had it connected to my Geneve at that time, so I had no idea about 
the CVBS or LCA video outputs.

If the analog RGB works I can make do for the time being.  It is a 
solution, so I will go through the hookup process.

Thanks.

Bill S

On 1/6/2011 1:28 PM, Tursi wrote:
> the cables to the two TI systems (4A&  4P) due to being back to back

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 13:09:00 -0800 (PST)

We are going to have a contest as to how many kludges it takes to get a system up and running.  So far Bill is in the lead with his line voltage to transformer to monitor set-up.  Anybody want to raise ? ;-)

--- On Thu, 1/6/11, fdos <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Commodore 1084S monitor issue
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 2:47 PM

  

Thanks.

Bill S

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:25:42 -0700

Marc,

That's nothing!  Now that I've hooked it up to both the 4A & 4P the 
analog RGB works great, but the composite is checkered (the video is on 
a visible grid).  However, the worse part is that I have to press two 
buttons on the back of the monitor to change from RGB to composite. :-(
I might have to put a mirror on the back of the Geneve monitor. so I can 
see which buttons to push.  Any ideas?

Audio is good for both because I can hook one to the left speaker and 
the other to the right speaker of the stereo input.  Hear both at the 
same time, but see only one at a time.

Bill S

On 1/6/2011 2:09 PM, Marc Hull wrote:
> We are going to have a contest as to how many kludges it takes to get a system up and running.Â  So far Bill is in the lead with his line voltage to transformer to monitor set-up.Â  Anybody want to raise ? ;-)
>
> --- On Thu, 1/6/11, fdos<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
> From: fdos<[email-masked]>
> Â

---

From: "Jon Vogel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:48:08 -0600

It's probably a PAL monitor which uses slightly different color signal information, even on a "CVBS" input.  For the US, CVBS is NTSC, for Europe, it's PAL.

This link indicates that it is PAL:  http://project64.c64.org/hw/1084s%20Monitor.txt

So, your US TI console won't show color on that monitor.

Regards,

Jon

From: fdos 
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:44 PM
To: [email-masked] ; [email-masked] 
Subject: [TI994A] Commodore 1084S monitor issue

Bill S

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:57:05 -0700

Further to my previous report I have found that I can use just one of 
the buttons to switch between the 4A & 4P, but there is no way I can 
reach around the monitor to press that button, and once I put the Geneve 
monitor back in it's place I won't be able to get to it at all unless I 
leave enough space for my arm in the bookshelf area next to the NEC monitor.

If I want to seriously use both my 4A & 4P systems with this monitor I 
will have to modify the one button for a remote switch operation. 
Otherwise, I will lose a lot more hair very quickly. :-(

Bill S

On 1/6/2011 2:25 PM, fdos wrote:
> Marc,
>
> That's nothing!  Now that I've hooked it up to both the 4A&  4P the

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:57:15 -0700

Yes, I've resigned myself to that fact already.  The analog RGB is very 
good, and the 4P is my preferred system, but there are some things that 
don't work with the 4P, so the 4A is needed.  My HRD-16 is flaky in the 
4P, and my IDE card does not work at all in it.  There are other minor 
issues also.

Bill S

---

From: "Tony Knerr" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 22:04:35 -0000

I'm waiting to receive one of these:

http://neobitz.com/Pages/Mods/SystemMods.aspx

as I still haven't resolved my monitor issues. Since the results
with the Ambery RGB to VGA converter were so poor, I decided to
go the route of RGB to Component. The clarity of Component video should 
be very close to, or identical to that of RGB. Or so I'm hoping. 

I should have the device next week sometime and will let everyone know
the results. Do I qualify for the contest?

Tony

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:11:11 -0800 (PST)

Yes you qualify... provided you can get a rubber band worked in there somewhere ;-)

--- On Thu, 1/6/11, Tony Knerr <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Subject: [TI994A] Re: Commodore 1084S monitor issue
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 4:04 PM

  

Tony

--- In [email-masked], Marc Hull <marc.hull@...> wrote:

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:14:45 -0800 (PST)

SNIP <I might have to put a mirror on the back of the Geneve monitor. so I can 

see which buttons to push.  Any ideas?>

Hmmmmmm....If you could work a garage door opener in there to switch the buttons for then I could declare a winner right now ;-)

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Commodore 1084S monitor issue
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 3:25 PM

  

      Marc,

Bill S

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:32:14 -0700

OK, standing by for better solution to convert RGB to modern video. 
It's also nice to have my 4P back with screen saver.  Both TI systems 
have copyright 1999 Tony Knerr Software at the bottom of the TI title 
screen as even the 4A has a 4 bank HSGPL card.

Bill S

On 1/6/2011 3:04 PM, Tony Knerr wrote:
> --- In [email-masked], Marc Hull<marc.hull@...>  wrote:
>>

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:37:19 -0700

What if I use a dart gun to operate the push on/push off button? :-) 
Surely that's a winner!  I have managed to knock off a couple of 
scorpions out in my garage with a CO2 BB gun.

Bill S

On 1/6/2011 3:14 PM, Marc Hull wrote:
> SNIP<I might have to put a mirror on the back of the Geneve monitor. so I can
>
>> We are going to have a contest as to how many kludges it takes to get a system up and running.Ã‚  So far Bill is in the lead with his line voltage to transformer to monitor set-up.Ã‚  Anybody want to raise ? ;-)
>
>>
>
>> Ã‚

---

From: "Ksarul" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:27:31 -0500

The Analog will definitely work, Bill.  The other inputs would require a PAL
TI to give you color and sound though.  Looks like you have a nice,
Analog-only RGB monitor. . .  

Jim Fetzner

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
fdos
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 3:47 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Commodore 1084S monitor issue

Thanks.

Bill S

On 1/6/2011 1:28 PM, Tursi wrote:
> To: [email-masked] <mailto:ti99-4a%40yahoogroups.com>  ;
[email-masked] <mailto:TI994A%40yahoogroups.com>

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 11:02:25 -0700

Not so.  This one also does TTL RGB, but I don't have any use for it, 
and the monochrome composite is adequate for the time being as the 
colors are grayscale and sound works--at least it beeps and honks.  I'll 
try some music later when I have time.  I have some errands to run today.

Bill S

On 1/7/2011 6:27 AM, Ksarul wrote:
>> To: [email-masked]<mailto:ti99-4a%40yahoogroups.com>   ;
> [email-masked]<mailto:TI994A%40yahoogroups.com>

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 11:52:45 -0700

I managed to try "House of the Rising Sun", a very complex music 
arrangement for the TI in XB.  It sounds great via the Commodore 1084S 
right side speaker, as the 4P is connected to the left side speaker.

It loaded fine from IDE1.MUSIC.VOL/05-08.RISING/SUN, so all is well if 
you can accept the gray-scale non-color graphics.

Bill S

---

From: mark wills <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 13:01:33 +0000 (GMT)

Bill

I had a look on ebay (UK) to see if there were any UK 4As going cheap. Figured 
if I could pick one up cheap I'd just send it to you as a gift.

Guess what, currently, NO 4As for sale in the UK!

I'll keep my eyes peeled. If I can find one I'll send it on over and you can use 
your monitor properly on God's very own [P]erfect [A]nd [L]ovely video system, 
instead of [N]ever [T]he [S]ame [C]olor! 

Mark

>
>From: Ksarul <[email-masked]>
>Sent: Fri, 7 January, 2011 13:27:31
>Subject: RE: [TI994A] Commodore 1084S monitor issue
>
>   
>
>
>The Analog will definitely work, Bill.  The other inputs would require a PAL TI 
>to give you color and sound though.  Looks like you have a nice, Analog-only RGB 
>monitor. . .  
>
> 
> 
>Jim Fetzner
>
________________________________
 
>From:[email-masked] [mailto:  [email-masked] ] On Behalf Of 
fdos
>I suppose it must be a PAL version as I purchased it used in  Poland . I

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:34:36 -0700

Mark,

But Never The Same Color is how I get my kicks on old route 66!  Which 
is just an easy ride (er 4 or 5 blocks) from my house.  If only I still 
had my DKW from my service days in West Germany as the last block of the 
direct route is dirt road not suitable for my low to the ground Mark VIII.

Which is to say you needn't bother sending a hobby PAL as Mr. Gray Scale 
and I are getting along real well.  He also constantly nags me to patch 
up one of his two NTSC brothers or both, but I just threaten to move 
over to the CF7A+/NanoPEB station, that's just 4 or 5 steps away, where 
I can enjoy PARSEC in full color and on wide screen.  Can't do X4th99 
there, however.  X4th99 is only 40/80 text mode right now anyway, so 
very appropriate for Mr. Gray Scale.

I do appreciate the offer though.  Thanks.

Bill S

On 1/8/2011 6:01 AM, mark wills wrote:
>> From: Ksarul<[email-masked]>