Subject: MDOS manual

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:09:56 -0500

Can someone link me to an MDOS manual?

**I have the Geneve emulator running in MESS (thans for the nudging Bill)...
I have a couple questions though... The way I got it to run is I put the
boot65 disk in one of the floppy slots in the MESS emulator... I am trying
to get Forth+ running, so here are my (couple) questions.

1) To get Forth+ running, do I simply need to put it in another of the
floppy slots?  Any particular commandline commands to run it?

2) Is there any way to prevent MESS from taking over 100% of the screen?

Thanks all!

---

From: Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 15:15:23 -0800

You can reference drives with letters or DSK#.

If you put it in drive 2 you should be able to go  B: <enter>
etc

if the program is mdos native you just run it with the program name. If it
requires "TI Mode" you either use the exec program or GPL to load up a
virtual TI environment.  Exec just runs whatever program you want, GPL is
like a software gram cracker set up where you load module binaries from disk
into memory then it boots up the TI groms.

Greg

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Owen Brand <[email-masked]> wrote:

> **I have the Geneve emulator running in MESS (thans for the nudging
> Bill)... I have a couple questions though... The way I got it to run is I
> put the boot65 disk in one of the floppy slots in the MESS emulator... I am
> trying to get Forth+ running, so here are my (couple) questions.
>

---

From: Gregory McGill <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 15:16:12 -0800

oh and the most important command is DIR :)

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:07:40 -0500

Got Forth+ up and running.  :) And got the windowing issue in MESS fixed.  Thanks Greg!!!

Firebrandmusic.net

On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Gregory McGill <[email-masked]> wrote:

> if the program is mdos native you just run it with the program name. If it requires "TI Mode" you either use the exec program or GPL to load up a virtual TI environment.  Exec just runs whatever program you want, GPL is like a software gram cracker set up where you load module binaries from disk into memory then it boots up the TI groms. 
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> **I have the Geneve emulator running in MESS (thans for the nudging Bill)... I have a couple questions though... The way I got it to run is I put the boot65 disk in one of the floppy slots in the MESS emulator... I am trying to get Forth+ running, so here are my (couple) questions.
>  
> 1) To get Forth+ running, do I simply need to put it in another of the floppy slots?  Any particular commandline commands to run it?
>

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:23:45 -0700

Owen,

I haven't looked for a Geneve/MDOS/ABASIC manual on-line, but I would 
suspect that it is on WHTECH.  In the meantime, I'll send you another 
V9T9.DSK image file with some useful tools to make using MDOS easier for 
you.

If you just want to get feel for Forth+ just mount the program 720K 
image to one of the floppy drive mount points A: or DSK1, B: or DSK2, C: 
or DSK3, D: or DSK4 and enter A: or B: or which ever mount point you 
selected.  Now just type forth <enter>

Hopefully, you printed out the two readme files using TI99dir, so you'll 
have some basic knowledge to start with.  Forth+ will boot up and auto 
load the MMSLIB library (BASIC+ in Forth+ 2.0).  One of the readme files 
with tell you how to load the HELP_DEMO file which will demonstrate some 
of the Forth+ capabilities.

Bill S

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 20:21:19 -0500

Thanks alot Bill.  I've been playing around with Forth+ and looking through the manual disk you sent.  It's an interesting Forth--- I'll probably post a YouTube video about it tonight or tomorrow--- once I figure out the editor and such.

Again, thanks.  :) Having fun!

Firebrandmusic.net

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 18:34:02 -0700

Owen,

Glad to hear it.  One of the readme files provide the controls for the 
Forth+ editor.  Just be aware that <ESC> which exits the editor will 
also remove the windows toolbar, but just press <ESC> again to restore 
and back the cursor up so you don't leave the escape code on the stack. 
  This is a recent MESS change which I won't take care of until Forth+ 2.0

Bill S

On 3/7/2011 6:21 PM, Owen wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:23 PM, fdos<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
>> Owen,
>>
>> selected. Now just type forth<enter>
>>

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 18:54:58 -0700

Owen,

I'm having difficulties sending the MDOS utils disk image to you 
privately.  I don't know what the problem is.

Bill S

On 3/7/2011 6:34 PM, fdos wrote:
> Forth+ editor.  Just be aware that<ESC>  which exits the editor will
> also remove the windows toolbar, but just press<ESC>  again to restore

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:14:55 -0500

Try [email-masked]

Thanks bill

Firebrandmusic.net

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:25:33 -0500

Got it Bill.... thanks!

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Owen <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Firebrandmusic.net <http://firebrandmusic.net/>
>
>
> >> Thanks alot Bill. I've been playing around with Forth+ and looking
> through the manual disk you sent. It's an interesting Forth--- I'll probably
> post a YouTube video about it tonight or tomorrow--- once I figure out the
> editor and such.
> >>
> >> Firebrandmusic.net <http://firebrandmusic.net/><http://firebrandmusic.net/>
> >>
> >>
> Bill)...

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:48:46 -0700

Owen,

I found the problem right after I sent the post about the problem.

Bill S

On 3/7/2011 7:14 PM, Owen wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2011, at 8:54 PM, fdos<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
>> Owen,
>>

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:50:48 -0700

I'll send more as I think of them, but I've been away from the Geneve 
for several years now, so a little slow on MDOS newbie needs.

Bill S

On 3/7/2011 7:25 PM, Owen Brand wrote:
> Got it Bill.... thanks!
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Owen<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
>> Firebrandmusic.net<http://firebrandmusic.net/>
>>
>>
>>>> Firebrandmusic.net<http://firebrandmusic.net/><http://firebrandmusic.net/>
>>>>
>>>>

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:51:16 -0500

Well without a real Geneve, I'm kind of just "dry humping"--- if you'll forgive the term.  :) 

I'm still having fun with it though... Maybe I'll find one for less than $800 one day.  :)

Firebrandmusic.net

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:09:14 -0700

Owen,

Although for normal use I do prefer the real hardware, both TI & Geneve, 
but for me the Geneve emulation is not as frustrating as the TI 
emulation due to keyboard issues that I hope will be resolved soon 
(Michael?).

Obviously, for me emulation is all about saving my real hardware, 
especially, during assembly and compile operations.  There is, of 
course, the added benefit of executing those operations at much higher 
than normal speed using emulation on a 2.4GHz PC.

I just hope you come to appreciate the benefits of the Geneve and MDOS 
as much as I do even though your experience right now is not quite real. 
:-)  I know some people, especially those that missed out on DOS and/or 
Linux before graphical interfaces came along, do not appreciate or enjoy 
or even tolerate command line interfaces as much as I do.  I suppose 
having taken typing in high school made that some what natural.

Anyway, enjoy MDOS and Forth+ and their command line interfaces as much 
as you can as it will become fun--eventually. :-)

Bill S

On 3/7/2011 9:51 PM, Owen wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:50 PM, fdos<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 10:44:04 -0500

Thanks Bill...

I also do almost all my assembling and program development in emulation for
the TI... But I'd probably never have written a program for the TI if I
didnt' have a real machine to run it on.  Once I get to a good stopping
point (usually after a chunk of code is complete) I will run it on my TI to
make sure it is running how I want it to.  This allows me to have all the
freedom in the world while coding, and the joy of seeing it run on iron.

The keyboard interface in Classic99 is flawless and easy... The keyboard you
see when you look down at your PC or laptop is exactly what you get when you
start coding.  In this way, I am able to hack together mockups in XB or
BASIC right in emulation, but if I have any dificult or in-depth code to
write, i do it in Notepad++ and simply paste into Classic99 via the dropdown
"Paste" feature.  It's really a slick and fun development environment, plus
anything I coding I do I can slap into my CF7 and run it on my hardware.

What I mean by all this is: I probably won't be writing any apps in MDOS
beacuse I have no hardware to run it.  The prospect of finding a Geneve and
a Myarc HFDC for less than a fortune is a bit far-fetched to me.  I'm still
having fun with Forth+ and doing some demos for a video series I'm doing on
vintage Forths though.  =)

As far as commandline interfaces, I've only recently (in tha last couple
years) begun working with DOSBox and the command prompt in Windows.  I'm
learning, but I'm not terribly efficient.  =)

I wish I'd had a Geneve back in the day--- or even now.  But the base of
users is so small these days, for me to write something specifically for the
Geneve wouldn't make sense.  If Geneve software will run on the G2, then
that changes things a bit.  =)  Anyway, thanks for your help getting the
Geneve emulation running.  I spent about 45 minutes reading the Forth+ docs
last night.  =)  Good stuff, buddy

Owen

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:09 AM, fdos <[email-masked]> wrote:

> >>>>>>> V9T9.DSK image file with some useful tools to make using MDOS
> easier
> >>>> for
> >>>>>>> you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> image to one of the floppy drive mount points A: or DSK1, B: or
> DSK2,
> >>>> C:
> >>>>>>>> I have a couple questions though... The way I got it to run is I
> put
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>> boot65 disk in one of the floppy slots in the MESS emulator... I
> am
> >>>> trying

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:30:35 -0700

Yes, I always test my development work on all my real hardware 
periodically.  The MDOS development has always been in very big chunks 
before testing on real hardware, but the TI is more difficult for me to 
master, and I don't yet have a confidence level sufficient to do big 
chunks before trying on real hardware.  TI BASIC+ on my TI-99/4A&P and 
my CF9A+/NanoPEB systems, but I can't do X4th99 testing on the 
CF7A+/NanoPEB due to the minimum of 256K of AMS/SAMS requirement.

Obviously, for some time I was limited to CF7A+/NanoPEB testing due to 
the lack of an appropriate monitor for my TI-99/4A&P systems.  They are 
once again available to me  Unfortunately, the 4A is without color, but 
this is of no real concern.

MESS at this moment for the TI is a testy experience for me due to touch 
typing that I do.  With a PC keyboard all is well and natural for all 
things PC and Geneve emulation, but the TI emulation also emulates the 
TI keyboard.  Now on real hardware this is not a problem as I can 
immediately adapt to the feel, but try doing that with a PC keyboard--It 
just doesn't work for me.  Most of my typing on the TI emulator can be 
done using the natural keyboard, including the "function" key 
combination's of F1 ~ F10, but not the special "function" plus "_", etc. 
or any of the "control" key comination's as they can only be done using 
the emulated keyboard.

I'm pleased that I can at least ways do all my development in MESS using 
80 column text (TI-99/4A with EVPC), and once the MESS TI-99/4P 
emulation is complete I will have a PC keyboard arrangement that will 
work for me.  Misery until then, however.  The best part is my 
development processes are exactly the same in MESS emulation as on my 
real hardware, both TI & Geneve.

Bill S

On 3/8/2011 8:44 AM, Owen Brand wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:09 AM, fdos<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Owen,
>>
>> Although for normal use I do prefer the real hardware, both TI&  Geneve,

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:55:08 -0700

Owen,

I was interrupted before I completely responded, so this is a 
continuation of my previous post:

I, too, have high hopes for a Geneve2, as that will mean I can go back 
to Forth+ 2.0 development.  Armed with new knowledge that was forced om 
me by engaging in X4th99 development where memory is extremely limited. 
  This old dog is still learning new tricks, and for me Forth+ 
development is not only rewarding but extremely fun.  Whereas doing TI 
development has pushed my sanity to the brink with all of it's weirdness 
with DSR, GPL and SML link stuff and non-linear memory arrangement.  Not 
to mention AMS/SAMS (which is not TI) control and restrictions that are 
not fathomable to me.  Only very talented programmers are going to 
accomplish much with this memory expansion system, so why not allow more 
programmer control and less restrictions?

Peace of mind and lots of fun is what hobbies are all about.  Go Forth+!

Bill S

On 3/8/2011 9:30 AM, fdos wrote:
> real hardware, both TI&  Geneve.
>
> Bill S
>

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: "Tursi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 09:25:41 -0800

>The keyboard interface in Classic99 is flawless and easy... The keyboard 
>you see when you look down at your PC or laptop is exactly what >you get 
>when you start coding.

Thanks Owen, but that's not quite true. Non-US keyboard layouts apparently 
do not work correctly, and they are supposed to. Keyboard is still an open 
issue! :)

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:47:53 -0500

Ahh---  i guess I'm glad I have a US keyboard layout then.  :)

Firebrandmusic.net

On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:25 PM, "Tursi" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:04:03 -0500

Take Classic99 for a spin.  :). DL, double click, and you're off and running!  :)

I found the emulation of the keyboards in most emulators is screwy... As you said, on real hardware, it's easy to adapt.  But you're right--- in emulation it's tough!!!

Firebrandmusic.net

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:06:24 -0700

Owen,

I can't afford to confuse myself more than I already am.  Remember I 
came to MESS because of the Geneve emulation.  Were this not the case I 
would be stuck using PC99 only due to my desire to limit confusion in my 
hobby life.

I was extremely happy doing Forth+ development in MESS, but like you 
said the user base has only gotten smaller since the early days, so it 
was clear (for a very long time) that I was doing it for myself only. 
However, I had a strong desire to give something back to this community 
that has been enormously helpful to me over these many, many years. 
Forth+ only had 11 registered users, and most of them have long 
disappeared from our community, so it doesn't exactly fill the bill.

X4th99 became the next project although I've been working on TI BASIC+ a 
long time, but it was never planned as something for the community as it 
was mainly (to begin with) a way to use all that GPL type memory I have 
in 16 module banks and 4 module banks HSGPL cards, as Tony Knerr's GRAM 
loader for HSGPL takes care of loading infrequently used modules 
(anything other than SEB and Winfried Winnkler's modified ED/ASM 
module).  Some where along the way I mentioned this development on-line 
during my frequent need for AL help, and a few others became interested, 
so this development got added, and now my plate "runneth" over with much 
Forth and AL coding to do.

So trying to change saddles in mid-stream never works out well for me, 
so I live with the devil I know best, and pray that MESS TI-99/4P is 
just around the corner.  If not I will just put myself into an X4th99, 
TI BASIC+ and Forth+ development loop with more time allotted to Forth+ 
to keep my sanity--hopefully, until Michael rescues me.

Bill S

On 3/8/2011 11:04 AM, Owen wrote:
> On Mar 8, 2011, at 11:55 AM, fdos<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
>> Owen,
>>

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: "John H. Carver Jr." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:43:32 -0500

Bill,

Just as an aside from one of the original "Bill Eleven", not to be 
confused with the Magnificent Seven,  your work was and is very much 
appreciated.  Forth+ is the only reason that I was looking into trying 
to get Mess to run on my machine so I could continue to work with 
Forth+, a very complete, very powerful program.  Someday it might happen

While the argument against writing applications for the Geneve might be 
a valid one in this day and age I can't imagine anyone writing an 
application for any of the TI or related machines really believes 
they're going to make any money doing so.  It's a labor of love.  That 
said, using a language like Forth makes it easy or relatively easy to 
port it to another platform and Forth+ is a dandy environment to work in.

I do not have a working TI console at this time so will have to pass on 
trying the new TurboForth.  Don't know if it would be possible to dump 
the cartridge and use it on the Geneve or a Geneve like environment and 
the monitor is dead on the Geneve anyway.

Just wanted to say thank you, Bill, for taking the time and effort to 
write one of the best programming environments for the Geneve.

                                                            John

---

From: mark wills <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 22:18:02 +0000 (GMT)

Confirmed. I run a UK keyboard. My # " and @ characters are in different places 
to the USA keyboard.

I think in classic99 to get a " symbol on a USA keyboard, you can press ALT P 
(which works ok) or shift 2. I have to press shift @ (the @ key is located near 
the return key).

Mark

----- Original Message ----
> From: Tursi <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Sent: Tue, 8 March, 2011 17:25:41
> Subject: Re: [TI994A] MDOS manual
>

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:59:51 -0700

Hi John,

Whoa!  My long lost past comes back to haunt me once again.  You pop up 
every time I need an adrenalin injection due to the lost causes I have 
hanging around my neck.  I keep telling you to show up more often, so we 
can keep the Forth front and center as I can't do it alone.

Obviously, we are making some headway with TurboForth getting ready to 
make its debut.  Mark Wills has proven his worth to the TI community in 
all he has done, so Forth credibility is on the rise, and could become 
the top star if the gamesters here and at AtariAge make it their main 
ingredient for all new fast paced games they create.  Owen could well be 
the leader on this front--depending on his impressions of Forth+.

Should this become true it would lessen my burden as I could drop X4th99 
development in favor of just enhancing TF with an MMOS (Memory 
Management Overlay System) and a MMLS (Memory Management Library System) 
along with a number of binary code Overlays for 32K systems and binary 
code Libraries for 256K or greater AMS/SAMS systems.  All the Overlays 
and Libraries would be identical as just the Memory Manager needs to be 
different for obvious reasons....  They were designed for Forth+ 2.0!

You, my friend, just need a PC upgrade.  The used PC market is huge, and 
you should be able to find something powerful enough with a more useful 
OS than Win98 that you can afford to use the latest and greatest MESS 
updates by Michael, so you can get back to Forth+ and get ready for the 
Geneve2 advent.  A new hope is on the horizon.

Cliche Bill S

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:34:17 -0700

John,

I seem to be pulling the trigger too quickly these days when I see 
another post come in that I want to look at immediately.

It might be worth your while to get an emulator copy of TurboForth, and 
add your half cent opinion during the beta testing--ask Mark Wills and 
he may send it your way along with a TurboForth on-line group invite. 
If you don't have MESS going you might try Classic99.  Mark or Owen or 
even Tursi can point you in the right direction.  It's called thinking 
in RPN folks!  It's coming back to me. ;-)

Also want to thank you for all your kind words about Forth+.  Maybe 
others will take note and give it a shot.  You know how it goes when 
you're blowing your own horn--everyone runs for cover.

Anyway, take care of yourself and join us for frequent Forth chats.

Bill S

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: Owen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 18:58:29 -0500

Hi John...  As far as money goes--- my "money" is interest and excitement.  :) The best I could hope for would be that one of my projects generates interest and causes someone to "turn on".  :)

It IS most certainly a labour of love, and I love the community very much.  It's a family member to me, and I probably spend more time, money, and energy than i should here...  BUT---- like any family member, these things are worth it.  When I wrote Lemonade Stand and had the color manuals printed and the labels--- I charged $5 at the Faire to  anyone interested in the game.  It was not for generating profit, but to cover the costs of printing, shipping, etc.  At last estimate, I lost .05 cents per copy.  :)

That being said.... If I were a wealthy man, I would spend most of my time writing, packaging, printing, and giving away games with full bells and whistles. It makes me happy to see TurboForth going... Even happier to see someone like yourself interested in it.  :)

By the way, thanks once again to Marc Hull for helping me write Lemonade Stand... It was my first game and I really had no idea how to construct a proper game loop.  :). If anyone's interested, Lemonade Stand is available for free download at my website, Opry99er.com

Firebrandmusic.net

---

From: tursi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:06:03 -0800 (PST)

> ... I can't imagine anyone writing an application for any of the TI or 
> related machines really believes they're going to make any money doing 
> so.  It's a labor of love.

While your overall point matches my own, I wondered why "money" was listed 
as the sole possible reason why someone might care about how many people 
see or use the resulting work. You can have a labor of love that is more 
enjoyable when it's shared. This is the reason that my own work has come 
down in scope to more target the base TI console (although of course I 
think it's perfectly okay to throw all the hardware you want into the 
cartridge, hehe ;) ).

I don't even like plugging the Speech Synth in anymore. (Though I suppose 
that one is fairly ubiquitious - if I spelled that right. hehe..)

---

From: tursi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:11:15 -0800 (PST)

> Confirmed. I run a UK keyboard. My # " and @ characters are in different places

hehe. I think you're my only UK user, Mark. ;)

Nevertheless, when I wrote the code, I tried to do it using the Microsoft 
"virtual key" system, which I assumed would be the same across all 
keyboards. Apparently, not, which seems to defeat the purpose. ;)

Actually, now that I think about it.. Mark, are all the UNSHIFTED keys 
correct? Maybe the problem is just that I need a translation for shifted 
keys. (Well.. maybe. That would mean all kinds of translation tables 
needed, and Windows already has this information in it. I just need to 
work out how to get it out, when I get there.)

Right now I've been doing a fair bit of overhaul for the next release.. 
quite a few good bugfixes and maybe just a few features can sneak in. I'd 
like to open up the DSK image support (probably stay read-only by default 
and allow a config option to enable writing) so more people can try it 
out. I'm pretty sure nobody has tried it yet, because it fails on about 
70% of the disk images and I hadn't heard from anyone yet. ;) (was a 
one-character error... "r" instead of "rb" in one place... ;) )

---

From: "John H. Carver Jr." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:30:00 -0500

I'm not haunting you, Bill.  Honest!  Just had to step in and tell the 
truth about your accomplishments.  I may never get to use the Geneve 
again and may or may not be able to upgrade my current system.  Either 
way I will always have the memory of using your great programming 
platform.  Lutz Winkler, Mike McCann and the others could only take me 
so far in my journey.  You stepped in and helped me to continue a while 
longer down the path.  I'll always be grateful for that.

                                                    John

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 19:19:16 -0500

BTW John, if I'm not mistaken--- Tursi plans to add TurboForth into the
Classic99 Application cartridge menu.  =)  All you would have to do is
download it, run it, select TurboForth from the cartridge menu, and you're
in Forth heaven.  =)

@FDOS, I'm really having a good time playing with Forth+.  =)  It's very
cool, and very much "TI"... Using other Forths for other vintage machines is
cool, but they're not the /4a.  =)  Thanks again.

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:25:14 -0800 (PST)

How about a thread title change here guys.... Getting confusing......

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Owen Brand <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TI994A] MDOS manual
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:19 PM

  

      BTW John, if I'm not mistaken--- Tursi plans to add TurboForth into the Classic99 Application cartridge menu.  =)  All you would have to do is download it, run it, select TurboForth from the cartridge menu, and you're in Forth heaven.  =)  

@FDOS, I'm really having a good time playing with Forth+.  =)  It's very cool, and very much "TI"... Using other Forths for other vintage machines is cool, but they're not the /4a.  =)  Thanks again.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:30 PM, John H. Carver Jr. <[email-masked]> wrote:

John

---

From: tursi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:34:37 -0800 (PST)

> download it, run it, select TurboForth from the cartridge menu, and you're

Uh... I need to remember if I actually had permission to do that. :)

At any rate, it's not released yet, so won't be in this release of 
Classic99. :)

---

From: "Stuart" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 00:45:01 -0000

>> hehe. I think you're my only UK user, Mark. ;) <<

Nope - there's at least two of us, if that's an incentive to get it fixed.  ;-)

As Mark said, its just the @#" symbols that cause the problem. These are shifted characters on the number keys, but also a mixture of shifted and unshifted characters on the keys just to the left of the <Return> key. 

Stuart.

---

From: Insane Multitasker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 21:16:09 -0600

Hey Owen, 

Any chance of you and Marc creating a 2-player version of lemonade stand?  Sort of either a dual screen version that could be competitive or cooperative?  I don't know if FORTH would be the right place to write it, maybe starting with the XB code, then convert if time permits?  You could even see about a contest at this years faire?

PS -  I changed the subject since this isn't really MDOS-related ;)

To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 18:58:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [TI994A] MDOS manual

Firebrandmusic.net

 

      Bill,

John

---

From: Owen Brand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 22:35:50 -0500

I hadn't ever thought of that.  It could be cool--- =)

Forth would be very cool.  I had actually thought of doing a text-only
version of Lemonade Stand in AceForth, but haven't gotten any further than
planning.  Marc was a great help to me when I was working on the original...
I hadn't written a game loop before, and he showed me the ropes.  I consider
him a mentor in many regards.  =)

As far as having something done before the Faire, probably not going to
happen... I am currently entrenched in writing my RPG and I've still got a
ton of work to do.  I'm probably 40% done with it... Actually once I get the
final few major in-game routines done, it's just about finishing level
designs and I can pretty much call it done.  =)

Thanks for thinking about Lemonade Stand... It's still the favorite thing
I've completed, and I would love to port it into Forth... TurboForth would
be the optimum choice.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Insane Multitasker <[email-masked]>wrote:

>
>
> Hey Owen,
>
> Any chance of you and Marc creating a 2-player version of lemonade stand?
> Sort of either a dual screen version that could be competitive or
> cooperative?  I don't know if FORTH would be the right place to write it,
> maybe starting with the XB code, then convert if time permits?  You could
> even see about a contest at this years faire?
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hi John...  As far as money goes--- my "money" is interest and excitement.
>  :) The best I could hope for would be that one of my projects generates
> interest and causes someone to "turn on".  :)
>
> It IS most certainly a labour of love, and I love the community very much.
>  It's a family member to me, and I probably spend more time, money, and
> energy than i should here...  BUT---- like any family member, these things
> are worth it.  When I wrote Lemonade Stand and had the color manuals printed
> and the labels--- I charged $5 at the Faire to  anyone interested in the
> game.  It was not for generating profit, but to cover the costs of printing,
> shipping, etc.  At last estimate, I lost .05 cents per copy.  :)
>
> That being said.... If I were a wealthy man, I would spend most of my time
> writing, packaging, printing, and giving away games with full bells and
> whistles. It makes me happy to see TurboForth going... Even happier to see
> someone like yourself interested in it.  :)
>
> By the way, thanks once again to Marc Hull for helping me write Lemonade
> Stand... It was my first game and I really had no idea how to construct a
> proper game loop.  :). If anyone's interested, Lemonade Stand is available
> for free download at my website, <http://opry99er.com/>Opry99er.com<http://opry99er.com/>
>
>
>

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:51:39 -0700

John,

I truly appreciate all your kind words, but that was something I 
accomplished some 18 years ago.  Since that time my star has fallen 
significantly, and is still fading at this time.  It only took me a 
little over two years to learn the guts of MDOS memory management and to 
fully implement Forth+ 1.0 and put out a 370+ page manual (admittedly 
much of it borrowed from TI Forth).  None of the graphics (including 
sprites), audio or speech came from TI Forth as most of that was 
implemented using am MDOS XOP, as did some of the other new stuff and 
V9938 specific capabilities.

I started the Forth+ 2.0 upgrade while I was in Poland for a year, 
worked on it off and on after I came back as I could based on work load 
that I was paid to do by my employer.  Moved to California and spent 
time trying to get back into it, but disaster after disaster plagued my 
PC and hobby systems.  When things got well again in 2006 I retired and 
re-evaluated the need for a Forth+ upgrade.  So I started playing with 
the idea of a TI version of Forth+ along with other things more specific 
to my TI-99/4P (SNUG-TI) system, and less Geneve and less Forth.

After the market crash of 2008 I moved to Arizona in order to survive on 
my fixed income, and still be active with my hobby and the TI/Geneve 
community.  I seriously get into X4th99 and TI BASIC+ development, and 
now Ive been at it over two years and nothing is near completion.  It 
seems to me that my star has landed in Arizona quicksand.  Sand traps 
here are not on golf courses, but along side of the roads for easy 
access.  I'm hoping for Mark Wills and other younger whipper snappers 
here to bail me out as the government sure hasn't.  There is a slim 
chance that I'm just getting old--I mean older. ;-)

Bill S

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: fdos <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:59:30 -0700

Owen,

I suppose we could say that Forth+ is derived from TI (TI Forth anyway), 
but its only home on MDOS which currently lives on a Geneve not a TI. 
Hopefully, the Geneve2 will come along and give it a longer life. 
Thanks for checking out Forth+ 1.0.  Forth+ 2.0 will really impress you.

Bill S

On 3/8/2011 5:19 PM, Owen Brand wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:30 PM, John H. Carver Jr.<

-- 
Bill R Sullivan (FDOS)
Go Forth+ or X4th99

---

From: mark wills <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 10:12:42 +0000 (GMT)

You sure do have permission to include it ;-)

I'd be honoured!

Will you embed it, or just distribute it as a C & D rom files in the MODS 
folder?

I would suggest the latter:

1) It's less work for you
2) People can replace the TF roms without having to upgrade Classic99 by simply 
downloading the latest version from www.turboforth.net

;-)

Mark

----- Original Message ----
> From: tursi <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Wed, 9 March, 2011 0:34:37