Subject: Pgram Pffffttttttsssssssssss.

From: "Marc H" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 04:02:39 -0000

A friend of mine sent me a P-gram card to play with a while back.  It has some issues of which most have been addressed. It still is not working but I am suspecting it is not a hardware issue at this point but perhaps a software one.

I have seen the WHT construction guide and it is somewhat helpful but also confusing on some points so here's some questions....

The manual makes mention of a 16K DSR.  The card has 3 RAM chips of which 2 are 32K and the remaining one is 8K.  This puzzles me as I would think the DSR would occupy it's own chip (perhaps not.)  Does anyone know how the physical memory is partitioned ?

With the RAM that is currently installed, is the limit of GRAM storage space then 56K ?  I was under the impression it was 80K but I may be mixing devices.

Currently the cards passes both tests included on the disk so I suspect that at least the memory address/paging is working OK.

When I attempt to load the DSR I get an odd result.  The program seems to work but the character definitions are corrupted.  I can blindly make selections on the menu of the loader program and see the screen change but it is all random character definitions (not random characters but garbage bit maps.)

I suspect that the software is bad but don't know if there is a hardware quirk I don't know about.

Any ideas ?

---

From: Jeff White <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 13:39:43 -0400

Unlike some GRAM-emulating devices, the P-GRAM cannot override the console GROM.  It therefore has 40K GRAM from G>6000-FFFF, 16K banked cartridge RAM at >6000-7FFF, and 16K banked DSR RAM at >4000-5FFF.

Jeff White

On 01 Jul 2012, at 00:02, "Marc H" <[email-masked]> wrote:
<snip>
> With the RAM that is currently installed, is the limit of GRAM storage space then 56K ? I was under the impression it was 80K but I may be mixing devices.
<snip>

---

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 14:33:31 -0400

Marc,

There's a chance the firehose card could be causing the problems.
The Pgram is notorious for not liking a marginal firehose card, so try
another one if you've got it.
Also, it doesn't care much for non-TI 32k cards, so make sure you've got a
stock 32k card in there.

The upgraded DSR is here:

ftp://ftp.whtech.com/utilities/Pgramy2k.ark

Make sure you have SW2 in the up position.
Set the switch in the middle of the card to the J1 position for the 
non-plus version.

With the EA cart installed, run the UTIL1 program on the disk.
Select 2 for load memory image.
Load the file PGDSR, the PGDSS file will load automatically after PGDSR.
Press 5 to quit.
Remove the EA cartridge.
Press the any key.
Press 1 for Basic.
Type 'CALL PGZAP'
Type 'CALL PG'
Does the Pgram menu come up?
Do the items on the menu work?

If not, probably a hardware error.
You could try swapping the 32k chips to see if anything changes.
If the results are different, one of the 32k chips is bad.

You could also put a 128k chip in U21 if you've got one, move the 32k chip
from U21 to U22, and set switch in the middle of the card to the J2 position
to make the card a Pgram+. That would eliminate the 8k chip if it's bad.

Can't think of much else at the moment, let us know how you make out.

Tony

On 7/1/2012 12:02 AM, Marc H wrote:
>
> A friend of mine sent me a P-gram card to play with a while back. It 
> has some issues of which most have been addressed. It still is not 
> working but I am suspecting it is not a hardware issue at this point 
> but perhaps a software one.
>
> I have seen the WHT construction guide and it is somewhat helpful but 
> also confusing on some points so here's some questions....
>
> The manual makes mention of a 16K DSR. The card has 3 RAM chips of 
> which 2 are 32K and the remaining one is 8K. This puzzles me as I 
> would think the DSR would occupy it's own chip (perhaps not.) Does 
> anyone know how the physical memory is partitioned ?
>
> With the RAM that is currently installed, is the limit of GRAM storage 
> space then 56K ? I was under the impression it was 80K but I may be 
> mixing devices.
>
> Currently the cards passes both tests included on the disk so I 
> suspect that at least the memory address/paging is working OK.
>
> When I attempt to load the DSR I get an odd result. The program seems 
> to work but the character definitions are corrupted. I can blindly 
> make selections on the menu of the loader program and see the screen 
> change but it is all random character definitions (not random 
> characters but garbage bit maps.)
>
> __

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 11:37:35 -0700 (PDT)

Thank you.  That make sense now.

I Have gotten to the point where I can blind load the DSR and the Horizon configure program now sees the P-Gram card.  It looks like the Pgram loader is either not setting up the VDP registers correctly or simply doesn't do it at all.  I don't want to try and use it until I can see what is going on.  

I will goof around with the source and see if I can remedy it.  I hope the EA manual has the default VDP register values.

--- On Sun, 7/1/12, Jeff White <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Jeff White <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Pgram Pffffttttttsssssssssss.
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sunday, July 1, 2012, 12:39 PM

  

 

      

With the RAM that is currently installed, is the limit of GRAM storage space then 56K ?  I was under the impression it was 80K but I may be mixing devices.<snip>

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 13:40:04 -0700 (PDT)

Think I found my issue so far.  Looking at the PG source it appears that the loader tries to go to GROM to get VDP info.  I run out of FWeb and apparently these two programs don't work together ?  A hack and a slash later I have a loader that bypasses the VDP init stuff and now it appears to work.  I'll have a sandwich then proceed with your advice.

thanks.... Marc.

--- On Sun, 7/1/12, Tony Knerr <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Pgram Pffffttttttsssssssssss.
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sunday, July 1, 2012, 1:33 PM

  

      

    Marc,

      The Pgram is notorious for not liking a marginal firehose card, so
      try

      Also, it doesn't care much for non-TI 32k cards, so make sure
      you've got a

      stock 32k card in there.

      Set the switch in the middle of the card to the J1 position for
      the non-plus version.

      Load the file PGDSR, the PGDSS file will load automatically after
      PGDSR.

      Press 5 to quit.

      Remove the EA cartridge.

      Press the any key.

      Press 1 for Basic.

      Type 'CALL PGZAP'

      Type 'CALL PG'

      You could also put a 128k chip in U21 if you've got one, move the
      32k chip

      from U21 to U22, and set switch in the middle of the card to the
      J2 position

      to make the card a Pgram+. That would eliminate the 8k chip if
      it's bad.

      Can't think of much else at the moment, let us know how you make
      out.

      Tony

    

            A friend of mine sent me a P-gram card to play with a
              while back. It has some issues of which most have been
              addressed. It still is not working but I am suspecting it
              is not a hardware issue at this point but perhaps a
              software one.

              I have seen the WHT construction guide and it is somewhat
              helpful but also confusing on some points so here's some
              questions....

              The manual makes mention of a 16K DSR. The card has 3 RAM
              chips of which 2 are 32K and the remaining one is 8K. This
              puzzles me as I would think the DSR would occupy it's own
              chip (perhaps not.) Does anyone know how the physical
              memory is partitioned ?

              With the RAM that is currently installed, is the limit of
              GRAM storage space then 56K ? I was under the impression
              it was 80K but I may be mixing devices.

              Currently the cards passes both tests included on the disk
              so I suspect that at least the memory address/paging is
              working OK.

              When I attempt to load the DSR I get an odd result. The
              program seems to work but the character definitions are
              corrupted. I can blindly make selections on the menu of
              the loader program and see the screen change but it is all
              random character definitions (not random characters but
              garbage bit maps.)

              I suspect that the software is bad but don't know if there
              is a hardware quirk I don't know about.

              Any ideas ?

          __

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 14:35:48 -0700 (PDT)

Okey Dokey then....

The cards is now working.  I loaded SXB and it ran just fine.  Same issue I ran into with the DSR LLoader is now surfacing in the DSR itself.  The character color is either blue or transparent because no alph-numerics are showing up but the nice looking box and diamonds are (as well as the copyright symbol.)  I guess the issue is loading and using from FW.  I'll see if I can patch the DSR for FWEB usage.

 

    

    Marc,

      stock 32k card in there.

      Press 5 to quit.

      Remove the EA cartridge.

      Press the any key.

      Press 1 for Basic.

      Type 'CALL PGZAP'

      Type 'CALL PG'

      Tony

    

              Any ideas ?

          __

---

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 17:41:06 -0400

Be careful of the space that's left in the DSR when you alter it - ain't 
too many bytes left. :-(

On 7/1/2012 5:35 PM, Marc Hull wrote:
>
> Okey Dokey then....
>
> The cards is now working.  I loaded SXB and it ran just fine.  Same 
> issue I ran into with the DSR LLoader is now surfacing in the DSR 
> itself.  The character color is either blue or transparent because no 
> alph-numerics are showing up but the nice looking box and diamonds are 
> (as well as the copyright symbol.)  I guess the issue is loading and 
> using from FW.  I'll see if I can patch the DSR for FWEB usage.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 7/1/12, Tony Knerr /<[email-masked]>/* wrote:
>
>
>>     A friend of mine sent me a P-gram card to play with a while back.
>>     It has some issues of which most have been addressed. It still is
>>     not working but I am suspecting it is not a hardware issue at
>>     this point but perhaps a software one.
>>
>>     I have seen the WHT construction guide and it is somewhat helpful
>>     but also confusing on some points so here's some questions....
>>
>>     The manual makes mention of a 16K DSR. The card has 3 RAM chips
>>     of which 2 are 32K and the remaining one is 8K. This puzzles me
>>     as I would think the DSR would occupy it's own chip (perhaps
>>     not.) Does anyone know how the physical memory is partitioned ?
>>
>>     With the RAM that is currently installed, is the limit of GRAM
>>     storage space then 56K ? I was under the impression it was 80K
>>     but I may be mixing devices.
>>
>>     When I attempt to load the DSR I get an odd result. The program
>>     seems to work but the character definitions are corrupted. I can
>>     blindly make selections on the menu of the loader program and see
>>     the screen change but it is all random character definitions (not
>>     random characters but garbage bit maps.)
>>
> __.

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 15:29:51 -0700 (PDT)

It should actually be smaller as I am eliminating the VDP init stuff.  Just ran into a problem though.  How the hell do you create an EA-5 image DSR on a computer with no DSR space ?

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Pgram Pffffttttttsssssssssss.
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sunday, July 1, 2012, 4:41 PM

  

      

    Be careful of the space that's left in
      the DSR when you alter it - ain't too many bytes left.  :-( 

    

                
                  
                    Okey Dokey
                      then....

                      The cards is now working.  I loaded SXB and it ran
                      just fine.  Same issue I ran into with the DSR
                      LLoader is now surfacing in the DSR itself.  The
                      character color is either blue or transparent
                      because no alph-numerics are showing up but the
                      nice looking box and diamonds are (as well as the
                      copyright symbol.)  I guess the issue is loading
                      and using from FW.  I'll see if I can patch the
                      DSR for FWEB usage.

                      

                      

                      --- On Sun, 7/1/12, Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
                      wrote:

                        Subject: Re: [TI994A] Pgram
                        Pffffttttttsssssssssss.

                        

                               
                              Marc,

                                There's a chance the firehose card could
                                be causing the problems.

                                The Pgram is notorious for not liking a
                                marginal firehose card, so try

                                Also, it doesn't care much for non-TI
                                32k cards, so make sure you've got a

                                stock 32k card in there.

                                Make sure you have SW2 in the up
                                position.

                                Set the switch in the middle of the card
                                to the J1 position for the non-plus
                                version.

                                With the EA cart installed, run the
                                UTIL1 program on the disk.

                                Load the file PGDSR, the PGDSS file will
                                load automatically after PGDSR.

                                Press 5 to quit.

                                Remove the EA cartridge.

                                Press the any key.

                                Press 1 for Basic.

                                Type 'CALL PGZAP'

                                Type 'CALL PG'

                                You could try swapping the 32k chips to
                                see if anything changes.

                                If the results are different, one of the
                                32k chips is bad.

                                You could also put a 128k chip in U21 if
                                you've got one, move the 32k chip

                                from U21 to U22, and set switch in the
                                middle of the card to the J2 position

                                to make the card a Pgram+. That would
                                eliminate the 8k chip if it's bad.

                                Can't think of much else at the moment,
                                let us know how you make out.

                                Tony

                                
                                
                                  A friend of mine sent me a P-gram
                                    card to play with a while back. It
                                    has some issues of which most have
                                    been addressed. It still is not
                                    working but I am suspecting it is
                                    not a hardware issue at this point
                                    but perhaps a software one.

                                    I have seen the WHT construction
                                    guide and it is somewhat helpful but
                                    also confusing on some points so
                                    here's some questions....

                                    The manual makes mention of a 16K
                                    DSR. The card has 3 RAM chips of
                                    which 2 are 32K and the remaining
                                    one is 8K. This puzzles me as I
                                    would think the DSR would occupy
                                    it's own chip (perhaps not.) Does
                                    anyone know how the physical memory
                                    is partitioned ?

                                    With the RAM that is currently
                                    installed, is the limit of GRAM
                                    storage space then 56K ? I was under
                                    the impression it was 80K but I may
                                    be mixing devices.

                                    Currently the cards passes both
                                    tests included on the disk so I
                                    suspect that at least the memory
                                    address/paging is working OK.

                                    When I attempt to load the DSR I get
                                    an odd result. The program seems to
                                    work but the character definitions
                                    are corrupted. I can blindly make
                                    selections on the menu of the loader
                                    program and see the screen change
                                    but it is all random character
                                    definitions (not random characters
                                    but garbage bit maps.)

                                    I suspect that the software is bad
                                    but don't know if there is a
                                    hardware quirk I don't know about.

                                    Any ideas ?

                                
                                __

                            

                

          
          __.

---

From: Tony Knerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 18:55:20 -0400

Assemble it as normal and load the resulting object code with the Pgram 
DSR loader.
Make sure you assemble both banks.
Then start up the Pgram DSR loader.

1. Initiailize DSR Memory

4. Load Object Code  (load both object files before continuing)

3. Save Memory Image

You don't have to load the Memory Image files after that because the 
code is already loaded. :-)

Tony

On 7/1/2012 6:29 PM, Marc Hull wrote:
>
> It should actually be smaller as I am eliminating the VDP init stuff.  
> Just ran into a problem though.  How the hell do you create an EA-5 
> image DSR on a computer with no DSR space ?
>
>     Be careful of the space that's left in the DSR when you alter it -
>     ain't too many bytes left. :-(
>
>
>>     The cards is now working.  I loaded SXB and it ran just fine. 
>>     Same issue I ran into with the DSR LLoader is now surfacing in
>>     the DSR itself.  The character color is either blue or
>>     transparent because no alph-numerics are showing up but the nice
>>     looking box and diamonds are (as well as the copyright symbol.) 
>>     I guess the issue is loading and using from FW.  I'll see if I
>>     can patch the DSR for FWEB usage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     --- On *Sun, 7/1/12, Tony Knerr /<[email-masked]>
>>     </mc/compose?to=[email-masked]>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>>         </mc/compose?to=[email-masked]>
>>         </mc/compose?to=[email-masked]>
>>         Set the switch in the middle of the card to the J1 position
>>         for the non-plus version.
>>
>>>         A friend of mine sent me a P-gram card to play with a while
>>>         back. It has some issues of which most have been addressed.
>>>         It still is not working but I am suspecting it is not a
>>>         hardware issue at this point but perhaps a software one.
>>>
>>>         chip (perhaps not.) Does anyone know how the physical memory
>>>         is partitioned ?
>>>
>>>         GRAM storage space then 56K ? I was under the impression it
>>>         was 80K but I may be mixing devices.
>>>
>>>         corrupted. I can blindly make selections on the menu of the
>>>         loader program and see the screen change but it is all
> _

---

From: Insane Multitasker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:47:15 -0500

So is the problem the pgram dsr or the fweb loader?  

To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 14:35:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [TI994A] Pgram Pffffttttttsssssssssss.

Okey Dokey then....

 

      

Marc,

      stock 32k card in there.

      Press 5 to quit.

      Remove the EA cartridge.

      Press the any key.

      Press 1 for Basic.

      Type 'CALL PGZAP'

      Type 'CALL PG'

      Tony

    

              Any ideas ?

          
          __

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:17:29 -0700 (PDT)

Hell it my be the guy doing the messing around hehe.

I am leaning towards still being a hardware issue.  Like perhaps the banking is not quite right.  The DSR loader software runs but the screen is not legible with the card in, looks OK without the card.)  Odd problemo....

I am still waiting on parts for my home brew logic chip tester.  I really don't want to keep wholesale replacing chips on a hunch.  My coffee can is getting full. ;-)

Hopefully I don't approach my record of 1 year on this one.

--- On Tue, 7/3/12, Insane Multitasker <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Insane Multitasker <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [TI994A] Pgram Pffffttttttsssssssssss.
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 7:47 PM

  

      

        

Okey Dokey then....

 

      

Marc,

      stock 32k card in there.

      Press 5 to quit.

      Remove the EA cartridge.

      Press the any key.

      Press 1 for Basic.

      Type 'CALL PGZAP'

      Type 'CALL PG'

      Tony

    

              Any ideas ?

          
          __

---

From: Marc Hull <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 13:07:35 -0700 (PDT)

After further review.......

I will now re-vacillate towards another HW issue.   After looking at the DSR source I saw where the programmer seems to be pulling character definitions out of GROM.  With this card that data never seems to make it or is being pulled from the wrong place leading me to think that the GROM chips are not being paged correctly in the DSR.   That's my story until I find another gun to jump to ;-)

Happy 4th everyone.  Now I am going to go back out in the heat and relieve my frustrations via gun powder......

 

    

        

Okey Dokey then....

 

      

Marc,

      stock 32k card in there.

      Press 5 to quit.

      Remove the EA cartridge.

      Press the any key.

      Press 1 for Basic.

      Type 'CALL PGZAP'

      Type 'CALL PG'

      Tony

    

              Any ideas ?

          
          __